I'm from Missouri

This site is named for the famous statement of US Congressman Willard Duncan Vandiver from Missouri : "I`m from Missouri -- you'll have to show me." This site is dedicated to skepticism of official dogma in all subjects. Just-so stories are not accepted here. This is a site where controversial subjects such as evolution theory and the Holocaust may be freely debated.

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Location: Los Angeles, California, United States

My biggest motivation for creating my own blogs was to avoid the arbitrary censorship practiced by other blogs and various other Internet forums. Censorship will be avoided in my blogs -- there will be no deletion of comments, no closing of comment threads, no holding up of comments for moderation, and no commenter registration hassles. Comments containing nothing but insults and/or ad hominem attacks are discouraged. My non-response to a particular comment should not be interpreted as agreement, approval, or inability to answer.

Tuesday, October 09, 2007

More nonsense from Fatheaded Ed about Founders' religious beliefs

BVD-clad blogger Fatheaded Ed Brayton wrote,

Jefferson never called himself a deist. He did call himself a Unitarian toward the end of his life. He also called himself a Christian (only in the sense of believing that Jesus' ethical system was the best ever invented, not in the sense of believing Jesus was divine) and an Epicurean at other times. But never a deist. Why, then, do so many insist on calling him a deist today?

Nothing about the religious beliefs of the Founders is more widely accepted than the idea that Jefferson was a deist. Saying that Jefferson was not a deist is tantamount to saying that we know nothing about the religious beliefs of the Founders. One thing is certain and that is that we have attached far too much importance to the religious beliefs of the Founders -- one glaring example, of course, is Judge Jones' statement in his Dickinson College commencement speech that his decision in the Kitzmiller case was based on his idea that the Founders believed that organized religions are not "true" religions.

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11 Comments:

Anonymous Voice in the Urbanness said...

> Nothing about the religious beliefs of the Founders is more widely accepted than the idea that Jefferson was a deist. <

There are many popular misconceptions about history. Ed has given his reasons for his position. You have only appealed to the popularity of the misconception.

> One thing is certain and that is that we have attached far too much importance to the religious beliefs of the Founders <

It may be certain to you, but not necessarily to anyone else.

"SELF-EVIDENT, adj.
Evident to one's self and to nobody else." - Ambrose Bierce.

> one glaring example, of course, is Judge Jones' statement in his Dickinson College commencement speech that his decision in the Kitzmiller case was based on his idea that the Founders believed that organized religions are not "true" religions. <

This, of course, is a total misinterpretation of what he said. Much of what you say is based in misinterpretations.

Why did you ban ViW?

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 4:15:00 AM  
Blogger Moulton said...

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

These words were written by Thomas Jefferson.

Incidentally, he was a redhead.

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 6:45:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

ViU said,
>>>>>> There are many popular misconceptions about history. <<<<<<<

Yeah -- like the holocaust.

>>>>>> Ed has given his reasons for his position. <<<<<<

I have given my reasons for my position about the holocaust.

>>>>> You have only appealed to the popularity of the misconception. <<<<<<

Many supporters of official holocaust history have only appealed to the popularity of the misconception.

>>>> One thing is certain and that is that we have attached far too much importance to the religious beliefs of the Founders <

It may be certain to you, but not necessarily to anyone else. <<<<<<

So let's just become a Christian nation like the Founders wanted us to be, with school prayer and all that stuff.

>>>>>> one glaring example, of course, is Judge Jones' statement in his Dickinson College commencement speech that his decision in the Kitzmiller case was based on his idea that the Founders believed that organized religions are not "true" religions. <

This, of course, is a total misinterpretation of what he said. Much of what you say is based in misinterpretations. <<<<<<<

You stupid fathead, here are Judge Jones' words again:

. . . we see the Founders' ideals quite clearly, among many places, in the Establishment Clause within the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. This of course was the clause that I determined the school board had violated in the Kitzmiller v. Dover case. While legal scholars will continue to debate the appropriate application of that clause to particular facts in individual cases, this much is very clear. The Founders believed that "true religion was not something handed down by a church or contained in a Bible, but was to be found through free, rational inquiry."* At bottom then, this core set of beliefs led the Founders, who constantly engaged and questioned things," to secure their idea of religious freedom by barring any alliance between church and state."
As I hope that you can see, these precepts and beliefs, grounded in my liberal arts education, guide me each day as a federal trial judge.


Under the social Darwinism that you love so much, you would be euthanized because of your inability to understand plain English.

Jones later gave speeches about judicial independence. He moaned that articles critical of his Dover decision failed to discuss the role of precedent, how judges work, and the "Rule of Law":

What all of them had in common -- all of these criticisms -- was that they omitted to note the role of precedent, how judges work, the Rule of Law. Trial judges carefully find the facts in a case and apply existing precedent as handed down by higher courts -- most notably, in this case, the Supreme Court of the United States. There was simply no attempt [in these media criticisms] to illuminate those issues or educate the public.

>>>>> Why did you ban ViW? <<<<<<

Blogger.com does not offer selective blocking of comments -- all that is offered is comment "moderation" on all comments. As you know, I have moderation turned off. There is no way I could delete ViW's comments fast enough to prevent them from being noticed. So cut out the frivolous false accusations.

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:23:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

Moulton said,
>>>>> These words were written by Thomas Jefferson. <<<<<<

Nothing in these words is inconsistent with deism.

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:26:00 AM  
Blogger Moulton said...

I consider Jefferson to have been a Deist.

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:48:00 AM  
Anonymous W. Kevin Vicklund said...

In my mind, the dispute is not over what Jefferson's religious beliefs were, but whether they can be properly classified as "Deist" - in other words, the dispute is over the definition of Deist. Specifically, can someone believe in a personal, providential, interventionist deity and still be considered a deist?

The answer to the above question is what determines whether Jefferson was a deist. Some people say yes. Other people, including Ed (and my Webster's dictionary) say no.

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:11:00 PM  
Blogger Moulton said...

For what it's worth, the Wikipedia article on Deism apparently leans toward the view that Jefferson (and Franklin) were Deists.

In particular, the term of art, Nature's God, is identified as being favored by Deists.

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:35:00 PM  
Blogger Jim Sherwood said...

"When in the course of wholly mindless, mechanical evolution, it becomes necssary for natural selection (etc.) to do away with those who have no faith in its sufficiency, a realization that all humans are pieces of junk impels us to exterminate such Infidel." --Darwin B. Leaver Ph.D

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 3:11:00 PM  
Blogger Moulton said...

Declaration of Indigestion

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 4:22:00 PM  
Blogger Jim Sherwood said...

We Darwinists say, "What's science?
Any notion that has our alliance!
So although we've no proof
Of our dogma, we'll goof
With your kids: and force your compliance."

(Mutton posts this, although he is a sheep: with the aid of Jim Sherwood.)

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 4:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Voice in the Urbanness said...

Those of you who doubt Larry censors might notice that about six posts have disappeared. They covered Larry's juvenile use of insults.

Larry has again proven his hypocrisy!

Friday, October 12, 2007 7:38:00 AM  

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