U.VA. and Judge Jones' "true religion" speech
. . . this much is very clear. The Founders believed that true religion was not something handed down by a church or contained in a Bible, but was to be found through free, rational inquiry. At bottom then, this core set of beliefs led the Founders, who constantly engaged and questioned things, to secure their idea of religious freedom by barring any alliance between church and state.
Judge Jones' above statement implies that he is inclined to go out of his way to attack anything that he could possibly conceive of as representing "false" religion -- e.g., intelligent design.
The phrases "free, rational inquiry" and "constantly engaged and questioned things" bring Thomas Jefferson to the minds of a lot of people. The early history of the University of Virginia, founded by Thomas Jefferson, gives insight into how Jefferson's thinking compared to the thinking of his contemporaries. A webpage of the University of Virginia's website says,
The University of Virginia was founded as a secular university, with no religious affiliation or denominational identity. In contrast, Georgia, UNC, South Carolina, Vermont, Blount College (which became the University of Tennessee), and others chartered as state universities had denominational sponsorship.
Chapel attendance was not required of students at the University of Virginia. Other universities, public and private, required their students to attend church services. In fact, Harvard did not do away with the chapel requirement until late in the 19th century.
Another webpage of the U.VA. website says,
For Jefferson, the college experience should take place within an "academical village," a place where shared learning infused daily life. Plans were developed for ten Pavilions—stately faculty homes with living quarters upstairs and classrooms downstairs—attached to two rows of student rooms and connected by an inward-facing colonnade.
At the head of the shared lawn would stand the library (not, as in most other colleges and universities of the time, a chapel), . . . .
Also, when Jones gave his "true" religion speech, he was standing behind the Dickinson College seal, which was designed by USA Founders Benjamin Rush and John Dickinson and which has a picture of an open bible and the college motto, "religion and learning, the bulwark of liberty," in Latin.
So even if Judge Jones' statement about "true" religion represents the views of Thomas Jefferson, it is doubtful that this statement represents the views of the Founders in general.
Anyway, IMO judges' establishment-clause decisions should be based on the plain meaning of that clause and not on the judges' notions of what the Founders thought.
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Labels: Judge Jones (new #1)
9 Comments:
Mindless repetition as usual. Can't you find anything new to misconstrue?
Larry, what is the "bottom line" in this argument for you?
In the case of the fundies, it is fairly clear. To them evolution is contrary to the notion of purpose in life, and further, this can be fixed by having the purpose driven by God. (That God is inscrutable is irrelevant in this view.) There is a second gain, which is that once one concedes that God did the creating, then it is a short step to a cookbook morality that is never ambiguous or difficult.
I can see the attraction of these arguments. But none of this seems to apply to you. What do you hope to get out of this effort?
The no establishment clause was probably meant,in large part, to avoid the religious conflicts that had often prevailed in Europe. Many religious sects came to this country to secure the right to practice their religion freely. The Constitution says nothing about any preference for allegedly "rational" religion.
I'm John Jones, His Ruling Grace,
Who keeps all the "low" in their place:
If they doubt any word
From a Darwinist nerd,
My riding-crop snaps in their face!
(These comments by someone named John Jones were received telepathically by Jim Sherwood.)
< received telepathically by Jim Sherwood >
He's good at this ... trust me!
Well, as usual, Larry does not answer a question. Admittedly a hard question, but not that hard. I'd think it was one that Larry would want to answer for himself, if not for us.
Maybe what's in it for him is skepticism for its own sake, seasoned with the opportunity to poke his finger in the eye of perceived authority figures?
Voice in Suburbanness said...
>>>>> Well, as usual, Larry does not answer a question. <<<<<<
Damn you, I told you umpteen times to give me some time to respond to questions.
Voice in the Urbanness said...
>>>>> Mindless repetition as usual. Can't you find anything new to misconstrue? <<<<<<
Where's the repetition? This is the first time I have presented this particular stuff (except for the thing about the Dickinson College seal, but I presented that here only to reinforce my point).
Voice in Suburbanness said...
>>>>> Larry, what is the "bottom line" in this argument for you? <<<<<<
I had no particular interest in the evolution controversy until the Kitzmiller v. Dover case. I perceived that case as a threat to freedom of inquiry. Also, as I said, my main reason for starting this blog was that I was being censored on other blogs.
Jim Sherwood said...
>>>>> The no establishment clause was probably meant,in large part, to avoid the religious conflicts that had often prevailed in Europe. Many religious sects came to this country to secure the right to practice their religion freely. The Constitution says nothing about any preference for allegedly "rational" religion. <<<<<
Fatheaded Ed Brayton said,
On February 18th, I'll be delivering a speech about religion, the founding fathers and the separation of church and state to a group at Grand Valley State University. In that speech I will consider the question of how their personal beliefs related to their positions about separation of church and state. I've said many times that there is no intrinsic connection and pointed out that some of the staunchest defenders of strict separation were devout Christians, particularly Baptist ministers.
-- yet Ed has never unequivocally conceded that Judge Jones' "true religion" statement is wrong.
I have been following Judge Jones' speeches as well as I can and to my knowledge he never repeated that "true religion" stuff. Maybe he got the message.
Hmn, I like what you're writing, but do not like the interface here.
>>>>> Hmn, I like what you're writing, but do not like the interface here. <<<<<<
What do you mean by "interface"?
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