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This site is named for the famous statement of US Congressman Willard Duncan Vandiver from Missouri : "I`m from Missouri -- you'll have to show me." This site is dedicated to skepticism of official dogma in all subjects. Just-so stories are not accepted here. This is a site where controversial subjects such as evolution theory and the Holocaust may be freely debated.

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Location: Los Angeles, California, United States

My biggest motivation for creating my own blogs was to avoid the arbitrary censorship practiced by other blogs and various other Internet forums. Censorship will be avoided in my blogs -- there will be no deletion of comments, no closing of comment threads, no holding up of comments for moderation, and no commenter registration hassles. Comments containing nothing but insults and/or ad hominem attacks are discouraged. My non-response to a particular comment should not be interpreted as agreement, approval, or inability to answer.

Monday, February 11, 2008

Darwinists perpetuate myth of "flat earth" myth

Darwinists argue that critics of Darwinism are hindering progress in the same way that an alleged belief that the earth is flat prevented the discovery of America until Columbus came along and challenged that "flat earth" belief by claiming that he could reach India by sailing west. But that story about Columbus is just a myth -- belief in a "flat earth" was not widespread in the middle ages. I remember hearing this Columbus myth repeated as fact by one of my teachers. Even Wickedpedia -- no friend of criticisms of Darwinism -- concedes that this story about Columbus is fictional.

An article says,

The idea that the earth is flat is a modern concoction that reached its peak only after Darwinists tried to discredit the Bible, an American history professor says.

Jeffrey Burton Russell is a professor of history at the University of California in Santa Barbara. He says in his book Inventing the Flat Earth (written for the 500th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's journey to America in 1492) that through antiquity and up to the time of Columbus, “nearly unanimous scholarly opinion pronounced the earth spherical.”

Russell says there is nothing in the documents from the time of Columbus or in early accounts of his life that suggests any debate about the roundness of the earth. He believes a major source of the myth came from the creator of the Rip Van Winkle story -- Washington Irving -- who wrote a fictitious account of Columbus's defending a round earth against misinformed clerics and university professors.

But Russell says the flat earth mythology flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over evolution. He says the flat-earth myth was an ideal way to dismiss the ideas of a religious past in the name of modern science.

However, Darwinists are still repeating the myth of this "flat earth" myth even today.

BTW, Washington Irving also wrote "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow." He obviously liked to tell tall tales.
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17 Comments:

Anonymous Voice in the Urbanness said...

> But that story about Columbus is just a myth <

But your belief that meteors come from inside the atmosphere, that the moon landings were staged, that the Los Angeles Times and the World Almanac are written and distributed with supernatural help, are not a myth.

Monday, February 11, 2008 7:06:00 AM  
Anonymous The evilutionist said...

Regardless of whether the flat earth myth was perpetuated by Darwinists or not, the Church DID perpetuate several science-hindering myths such as geocentricism and labeled deniers as heretics, even threatening them with pain and death if they didn't recant.

On another note, you might be interested to know that the Bay district debate on evolution standards in Florida is being broadcasted live on webcast. The amount of stupidity coming from the fundie mouthbreathers is overwhelming. Evidently, some of them are even more paranoid then me... (OMG "Real" evidence of creationism being suppressed in the media by the "Evilutionists" conspiracy)

Monday, February 11, 2008 9:45:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

The evilutionist said...
>>>>>Regardless of whether the flat earth myth was perpetuated by Darwinists or not, the Church DID perpetuate several science-hindering myths <<<<<<<

Whether that is true or not, the Darwinists are only showing their ignorance by harping on the flat-earth myth. I keep hearing this "flat earth" smear even today.

>>>>>>>On another note, you might be interested to know that the Bay district debate on evolution standards in Florida is being broadcasted live on webcast. <<<<<

The public speakers don't "debate" -- they just make their statements. The school board members might have a debate.

Anyway, I am really surprised that a hearing of a school board of a relatively small county would be broadcast live or otherwise. It shows how great the public interest is on this issue.

>>>>>The amount of stupidity coming from the fundie mouthbreathers is overwhelming. <<<<<

Unfortunately, many fundies are not good spokespeople for criticisms of Darwinism. I wish that I were there to tell the school board the truth about co-evolution, Judge Jones, and the Fordham Institute.

Right now those who question Darwinism are not represented at all in the proposed evolution education standards. The state board of education should at least add the word "theory" to the standards.

Also, as usual, ViU is just making ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the topic of the post.

Monday, February 11, 2008 12:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Fundie said...

< I wish that I were there to tell the school board the truth about co-evolution, Judge Jones, and the Fordham Institute. >

Then we would have to kidnap you and tie you up for the duration.

Monday, February 11, 2008 2:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Fundie said...

(Putting the "fun" back in "fundie".) :-)

Monday, February 11, 2008 2:36:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

It looks like the webcast is for the state board of education hearing in Orlando, not the Bay School District hearing in Bay County. I wish that an audio-only webcast were offered -- my dial-up connection is too slow for live video.

The oral hearings are probably very important. The board of education must have received thousands of written comments and simply does not have the time to go through all of them, therefore many of the best written comments are simply going to be lost in the wash. I am really afraid that the fundy speakers are going to blow it by speaking only about the bible, Darwin-to-Hitler, those kinds of things.

The current proposed Florida standards stink -- they do nothing for the majority, those who think that Darwinism should not be taught dogmatically. The least that the board of education could do would be to add the word "theory" to the standards.

Fundie said,
>>>> Then we would have to kidnap you and tie you up for the duration. <<<<<

Wrong. The fundies who need to be prevented from speaking at the hearing are those who talk only about the bible, Darwin-to-Hitler, those sorts of things.

Monday, February 11, 2008 2:56:00 PM  
Anonymous the evilutionist said...

Would you have expected any different? Look at the demographic that the ID proponents and anti-evolutionists were targeting:

The typical bible thumping intolerant fundie.

Good for making sure your box keeps getting checked off on a voting ballot, but not so good for debates and presenting ideas. I know how you and Sherwood keep presenting yourselves as the "other type of ID supporter" without all the fundie rhetoric we've all grown to love, but is it that surprising or outrageous when we categorize along with the rest of the fundie ilk?

Personally, I'd be entertained by the possibility of you (Larry) speaking at one of these public meetings. Would you be surprised if the general public finds your arguments as asinine as what a few internet anonymous have been telling you for the past few months?

Monday, February 11, 2008 3:08:00 PM  
Blogger Jim Sherwood said...

It's too bad that many "fundies" reject any form of human descent from lower animal ancestry. I personally don't mind being physically interconnected with all of nature, which seems obvious to me.

But Darwinists are partly responsible for that situation. They insist on descent by perfectly mindless, mechanical causes: which can't be demonstrated by any scientific test. And Darwinism is the doctrine of descent basically due to competitive struggle, death, and slaughter. It's not suprising that people, including "fundies," would reject an undemonstrable claim of that sort.

So without Darwinism, fundamentalism might be much less popular.

Monday, February 11, 2008 3:59:00 PM  
Blogger Jim Sherwood said...

The Columbus/flat-earth myth was also taught in my school. That doesn't do much for confidence in public schools, of course.

There will be even less confidence in them if Darwinism is taught there--as it already is, in many schools. Darwinism has lost much credibility because of attacks upon it by reputable scientists who had no religious motives, over the last thirty years. It's continuing to lose credibility, with the educated public and with quite a few scientists as well.

I doubt that it has had much to do with "fundie" plots, which some think that they can detect. My impression is that they are so good at spotting "fundies," that they detect two or more of them for every one that actually exists.

Monday, February 11, 2008 4:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Voice in the Urbanness said...

> I wish that I were there to tell the school board the truth about co-evolution, Judge Jones, and the Fordham Institute. <

But you have shown that you don't know the truth.

> Also, as usual, ViU is just making ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the topic of the post. <

You believe that stating relevant facts is an ad hominem attack.

Monday, February 11, 2008 7:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Voice in the Urbanness said...

> The fundies who need to be prevented from speaking at the hearing are those who talk only about the bible, Darwin-to-Hitler, those sorts of things.<

While you don't talk about the bible, you have bought into the Darwin-to-Hitler crap as you have expressed right on this blog.

Monday, February 11, 2008 7:17:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

ViU said,
>>>>> The fundies who need to be prevented from speaking at the hearing are those who talk only about the bible, Darwin-to-Hitler, those sorts of things.

While you don't talk about the bible, you have bought into the Darwin-to-Hitler crap as you have expressed right on this blog. <<<<<<

That doesn't mean that I think it is appropriate to bring up this Darwin-to-Hitler "crap" at one of these hearings -- I don't think that this "crap" has any bearing on the scientific merits of Darwinism.

Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:00:00 AM  
Anonymous the evilutionist said...

It's also important to note the irony of fundies spouting Darwin-Hitler rhetoric, since Hitler himself, on several occasions, has used creationism and other biblical references to justify his genocide of jews and other "non-aryan" people...

Tuesday, February 12, 2008 9:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Voice in the Urbanness said...

> I don't think that this "crap" has any bearing on the scientific merits of Darwinism. <

If you think it is "crap", why did you promote it earlier?

(I know. You didn't promote it. You were just playing Devil's advocate.) Perhaps this whole blog is just you playing Devil's advocate?

You didn't answer as to whether your ideas about meteors and the Los Angeles Times weren't just as stupid as the flat earth idea. Your failure to reply is righly seen as an inability to do so.

Tuesday, February 12, 2008 9:34:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

Almost before the cock crowed, I have already seen this "flat earth" myth repeated three times in the short time since I wrote this article.

Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:56:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>Your failure to reply is righly seen as an inability to do so. <<<<<

Your failure to address the subject of this article, dunghill, is rightly seen as an inability to do so.

Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Voice in the Urbanness said...

> Almost before the cock crowed, I have already seen this "flat earth" myth repeated three times in the short time since I wrote this article. <

You pathetic cretin. Mentioning the subject of this thread is not repeating a myth. We know that nobody really believes in a flat earth besides possibly you. We also know that you have even loonier ideas that for some reason you don't want to admit here.

> Almost before the cock crowed, I have already seen this "flat earth" myth repeated three times in the short time since I wrote this article.

> Your failure to address the subject of this article, dunghill, is rightly seen as an inability to do so. <

It has been addressed you jackass. As usual it all went over your head.

Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:10:00 PM  

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