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This site is named for the famous statement of US Congressman Willard Duncan Vandiver from Missouri : "I`m from Missouri -- you'll have to show me." This site is dedicated to skepticism of official dogma in all subjects. Just-so stories are not accepted here. This is a site where controversial subjects such as evolution theory and the Holocaust may be freely debated.

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Location: Los Angeles, California, United States

My biggest motivation for creating my own blogs was to avoid the arbitrary censorship practiced by other blogs and various other Internet forums. Censorship will be avoided in my blogs -- there will be no deletion of comments, no closing of comment threads, no holding up of comments for moderation, and no commenter registration hassles. Comments containing nothing but insults and/or ad hominem attacks are discouraged. My non-response to a particular comment should not be interpreted as agreement, approval, or inability to answer.

Wednesday, August 26, 2009

"Inglourious Basterds" and the problem of Jew identification


I went to see the recently-released movie "Inglourious Basterds" -- a holocaust-themed movie -- because I wanted to see how it handled the problem of Nazi identification of Jews and non-Jews in the holocaust. I have long contended that a "systematic" Jewish holocaust was impossible because the Nazis had no objective and reliable ways of identifying Jews and non-Jews. Of course, the movie glosses over this problem of Jew identification -- the Jewish characters in the movie don't even look Jewish. Also, the movie begins with Nazis hunting Jewish farmers in the French countryside; if you are going to exterminate six-million Jews, you can't afford to spend much time hunting individual Jews.

The movie begins with a lot of pointless atrocities which to me did not really contribute to the movie, but the movie later has a lot of good suspense.

It was very sad about Shosanna and Frederick (pictured) -- in different circumstances, they could have had a very good relationship.

According to this article, the proliferation of holocaust-themed movies has reached the saturation point.

If you have not seen the movie, I recommend that you don't read the Wikipedia article about it, as that article will spoil the plot.

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32 Comments:

Blogger Erin said...

Problem being, you're still an idiot.

Remember when people read the posts you made instead of skimming to see if comments had made it through your "larry-filter"?

Oh, those were the days, of honest discourse and interesting conversation. How i miss those days.

Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:01:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>> Oh, those were the days, of honest discourse and interesting conversation. <<<<<<

Where is the "honest discourse and interesting conversation" in your comment, you stupid fathead?

What stupid jerk won't read a post if there are no comments attached? And how can you judge whether I am an "idiot" if you don't read the post?

Friday, August 28, 2009 8:49:00 AM  
OpenID noamgr said...

I guess someone should've told my grandma's mom that her family wasn't *actually* being shot one by one right in front of her. Nazi's didn't have that sort of time to waste! -- she could've saved herself the trouble of fleeing to an unknown continent as a young girl.

And those are some good actors they hired to make all those fake 1930's films of starving men women and children in concentration camps. How'd they make those pressure chamber experiments look so real though?

Boy they must've had some mad good special effects those jews. They're thrifty.

Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:26:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>>> Boy they must've had some mad good special effects those jews. <<<<<<<

Bozo, you still have not described any objective and reliable ways that the Nazis had for identifying Jews and non-Jews.

Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Stuart M said...

The Catholic Church was instrumental in helping the Nazi regime to identify Jews with its birth and family records. Pope Pious the 12th was a certified Nazi collaborator and made the Hitler's birthday (April 20th)a holiday.

Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:40:00 AM  
OpenID noamgr said...

Bozo?

it was a gradual build up. They didn't just one day say "all jews come here and we'll put you in concentration camps."

First they started with little things like simply asking all Jews to wear a star on their clothing. Then they were segregated into ghettos, and they'd have no choice but move there, seeing as nobody would hire jews by that point.

How did they know if you were jewish in the first place? The same way dictatorial regimes find dissenters to this very day (in my home country of Argentina, for example, in the 70's many people were murdered and tortured by the government for their beliefs... wait, maybe that didn't happen either: after all, what's an objective reliable way to identify people' beliefs? boy, what bozos).

All it takes is one of your neighbors suspecting you're a jew. He calls the police on you. The police shows up at your house and asks you for documentation and search your home.

The end.

Did you seriously think that people would've had to "look jewish" in order for the Holocaust to be possible?

Christ.

THE HOLOCAUST IS DOCUMENTED ON FILM. THERE ARE COUNTLESS HOURS OF FILM DOCUMENTING CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND MEDICAL EXPERIMENTS CONDUCTED ON MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

what more proof do you need than videos of things like a malnourished man being put in a pressure chamber until he dies?

Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:52:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>>> The Catholic Church was instrumental in helping the Nazi regime to identify Jews with its birth and family records. <<<<<<<

Did the Catholic Church keep records of non-Catholics? Duh.

Wednesday, September 02, 2009 2:22:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>> First they started with little things like simply asking all Jews to wear a star on their clothing.
How did they know if you were jewish in the first place? The same way dictatorial regimes find dissenters to this very day (in my home country of Argentina, for example <<<<<<<

But how did the Nazis identify Jews who kept quiet about being Jewish? And supposedly a lot of victims of the Jewish holocaust did not even think of themselves as Jews.

You still have not described any objective and reliable ways that the Nazis had for identifying Jews and non-Jews.

>>>>>> All it takes is one of your neighbors suspecting you're a jew. He calls the police on you. <<<<<<

Why would the Nazis trust someone who would rat on his neighbor?

>>>>>>> The police shows up at your house and asks you for documentation and search your home. <<<<<<<

So Jews keep documentation in their homes saying, "I'm a Jew. Persecute me." You are a stupid idiot. You just make up just-so stories as you go along.

>>>>>> Did you seriously think that people would've had to "look jewish" in order for the Holocaust to be possible? <<<<<<

It would certainly help.

>>>>> THE HOLOCAUST IS DOCUMENTED ON FILM <<<<<<

What is not documented is that six million Jews were exterminated. And you still have not answered the question about how the Nazis positively identified Jews and non-Jews.

Wednesday, September 02, 2009 2:39:00 PM  
OpenID noamgr said...

But how did the Nazis identify Jews who kept quiet about being Jewish?


Clearly there was no 100% proof way of doing this, seeing as many Jews survived the Holocaust.

And I'm not religious; I don't believe in the Jewish God-- yet I still own many Jewish artifacts, seeing as they are part of my family history. This would've given me up as a Jew or Jew supporter in a house search (anyone aiding and abetting Jews was also punished).

Why would the Nazis trust someone who would rat on his neighbor?

Do you live under a rock? This method is used to this day in regimes all around the world!

Hell, look a the the history of your own country. All those blacklisted people. hm... how were all those communists found out? they certainly didn't "look like communists".

THEY WERE RATTED OUT.

Why rat someone out?

Some do so out of fear (if you knew that your family was in danger if the police found out you were helping a Jewish family, would *you* not rat them out?); others do so because they support the ideals of the party.

Look at Argentina in the 70's. Look at Chile in the 70's. Look at the middle east right now (Iran for example).

Millions of people incarcerated or tortured or killed based on their IDEALS. Most of them ratted out by neighbors, coworkers, etc.

Did these other historically documented events in South America not happen either? Did all those people just go missing for no reason?

Go speak to an Argentinean who lived through this hell and tell him such things don't happen. Educate yourself on history; you're making a fool of yourself.

So Jews keep documentation in their homes saying, "I'm a Jew. Persecute me." You are a stupid idiot. You just make up just-so stories as you go along.

Jews have Jewish last names and own Jewish books and Jewish artifacts. My last name is Rabinovich. That literally means "Son of a Rabi."

Boy, those Nazis would've had a hard time cracking that code!

What is not documented is that six million Jews were exterminated.

You expect footage of every single Jew that was ever killed while he is being killed??? Are you honestly telling me this is the only way to prove that an historical event of this magnitude ever took place???

Maybe I should start a Viet Nam War denial blog. I've never seen footage of all those soldiers being killed.

The Holocaust happened less than 100 years ago. There are people who are still alive and who lived through it!

And not just Jews. What about family members of Nazi's who write memoirs of the events? Do they just enjoy to defile their own family name?

What about memoirs of soldiers on both sides. American soldiers who saw the concentration camps and German soldiers who worked there?

Why is it that Nazis who were then incarcerated, sometimes under the penalty of death, have never denied their actions?

Are you honestly proposing that every Jew, Nazi, relative of a Nazi, Politician, Soldier etc. etc. who has ever talked about the Holocaust is an actor in some grand conspiracy? That all those films showing men women and children starving to death are fake or have some other explanation? That all the concentration camps and Nazi propaganda films are also fake and other artifacts that are still around are all fake?

If so. Why?
Why take on what would be the most elaborate conspiracy of all time, bar none?

Are you insane?

And you still have not answered the question about how the Nazis positively identified Jews and non-Jews.

Yes I did:

1) Birth certificates.
2) Documents taken from synagogues listing members.
3) Last names.
4) Accusations from coworkers and neighbors.

Their methods weren't 100% effective; many Jews survived. And just being suspected of being a Jew or supporting Jews was sometimes enough to get you in trouble. Not just Jews died in the Holocaust! millions of others died as well.

---
http://noamgr.wordpress.com

Wednesday, September 02, 2009 3:37:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>> Clearly there was no 100% proof way of doing this, seeing as many Jews survived the Holocaust. <<<<<<<

They not only had to identify the Jews, they also had to identify the non-Jews in order to know who not to victimize! If a "systematic" holocaust had been attempted, a lot of non-Jews would have been afraid that they would be mistaken for Jews, and we would have heard more complaints of the Nazis mistaking non-Jews for Jews.

>>>>>> Hell, look a the the history of your own country. All those blacklisted people. <<<<<<

There were big investigations of these blacklisted people -- it's not like the Nazis carting off a "Jew" just because someone pointed a finger at him. Reliably identifying just a single "Jew" could be a big job.

>>>>> Why rat someone out?

Some do so out of fear <<<<<<<

Which is a good reason not to trust an informer.

>>>>>> Jews have Jewish last names and own Jewish books and Jewish artifacts. <<<<<<<

Lots of European names are Jewish-sounding. A lot of the top Nazis had Jewish-sounding names, e.g., Eichmann.

>>>>>> You expect footage of every single Jew that was ever killed while he is being killed??? <<<<<<<

No, bozo, but I expect better evidence than what he have now. And as I said, the idea of a "systematic" Jewish holocaust is not credible because the Nazis had no objective and reliable ways of identifyijng Jews and non-Jews.

>>>>> There are people who are still alive and who lived through it! <<<<<<

And their testimony is just anecdotal and hearsay.

>>>>>> Are you insane? <<<<<<

You are insane, you dumb stupid fathead. You should see some of the names I am called for daring to question the holocaust. The Jew identification issue I have raised is unusual and reasonable and is entitled to fair and civil consideration, but I get a lot of scoffing.

>>>>>> 1) Birth certificates. <<<<<<<

So everyone runs around carrying their birth certificates, which all say "Jew" and "non-Jew" (I keep my birth certificate in my safe-deposit box). If what you say is true, then all of Europe must have spent generations preparing records specifically for a future Jewish holocaust.

>>>>>> 2) Documents taken from synagogues listing members. <<<<<<<

The Nazis burned down all the synagogues.

>>>>>
3) Last names.
4) Accusations from coworkers and neighbors.
<<<<<<

I covered those already.

The problem of identification of Jews and non-Jews should be central to holocaust studies but has been almost completely ignored. The book "IBM and the Holocaust" by Edwin Black claims that the Nazis identified all of the Jews of Europe by using IBM Hollerith machines to cross-correlate data stored on billions of IBM Hollerith cards. But those primitive machines obviously did not have such data-processing ability, even if all the necessary data had been available -- all those machines could do was just read, sort, and merge a few cards at a time.

Official holocaust history is very fishy and a lot of people are not buying it.

Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am sorry. Eichmann is a gentile name. Any german, gentile or jewish, could tell you that. There might be discussions on Eichman (with one single 'n' at the end), but Eichmann is clearly gentile. It *might* sound Jewish -- like Hertzfeldt sounds --, but once written down, it would be clear. By the way, Hertzfeldt is also not Jewish.

There are nuances here, on last name formation, that you seem not to know.

Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:23:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>> Eichmann is a gentile name. <<<<<<

You are so full of living crap that it is coming out your ears, bozo. Also, there are lots of other Nazi names that look Jewish.

Friday, September 04, 2009 9:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Larry, you're getting your ass kicked over at Respectful Insolence.

Creationism X Holocaust denial = stupidity[squared]

"The reason I bring this up is that the other day I saw the absolute dumbest example of Holocaust denial I've ever seen. Believe me, I've been in some of the deepest, darkest depths of Holocaust denial discussion boards, right in the heart of some of the nastiest, vilest, most despicable white power rangers, and I can't recall anything this ignorant of history and brain dead at the same time. It's also a perfect example of crank magnetism, in that he's someone who's very well known around ScienceBlogs for his creationist proclivities and is known to show up to troll the comments of several blogs when the topic of evolution comes up. His sheer crankitude surpasses that of even many anti-vaccine zealots that I encounter. (Hmmm. I wonder if he's into anti-vaccine quackery and "alternative medicine," too.)

Yes, I'm referring to Larry Fafarman, who apparently can't distinguish fantasy from reality, as he demonstrates in a post entitled Inglourious Basterds and the problem of Jew identification."

You're too cowardly to post all responses here. Can you take the heat of a hostile environment?

Friday, September 04, 2009 11:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>>>> 2) Documents taken from synagogues listing members. <<<<<<<

The Nazis burned down all the synagogues.<<<

What a fucking idiot. What if they, like, took the documents from the synagogues before they burned them? Did all copies of the documents spontaneously combust when the building they used to be in burned down?

No wonder people think you are dumber than a brick.

Friday, September 04, 2009 1:19:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>>> What a fucking idiot. What if they, like, took the documents from the synagogues before they burned them? <<<<<<<<

You stupid dunghill, supposedly the Nazis hatched their "final solution" plan at Wannsee in 1942, and by that time probably all the synagogues had been destroyed. Also, maybe the Jews destroyed the records to keep them out of the hands of the Nazis. And once you have the records, what can you do with them? You have to hunt the Jews down one by one.

>>>>>>> Did all copies of the documents spontaneously combust when the building they used to be in burned down? <<<<<<

So were the documents kept in fireproof safes to save them for the Nazis?

>>>>>> No wonder people think you are dumber than a brick. <<<<<<

"I'm always kicking their butts -- that's why they don't like me."
-- Gov. Arnold Schwazenegger

Saturday, September 05, 2009 4:11:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

Also, supposedly many victims of the Jewish holocaust did not even think of themselves as Jews.

A "systematic" Jewish holocaust is so improbable that those who claim it happened have an especially heavy burden of proof.

Saturday, September 05, 2009 4:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some moron somehow found enough brain cells to write this:

">>>>>> 2) Documents taken from synagogues listing members. <<<<<<<

The Nazis burned down all the synagogues."

If you remove the documents before you burn the synagogues, the documents don't magically disappear. Sheesh. What a nutcase.

Saturday, September 05, 2009 4:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You stupid dunghill, supposedly the Nazis hatched their "final solution" plan at Wannsee in 1942, and by that time probably all the synagogues had been destroyed."

You fucking moron, the Nazis decided to identify the Jews in 1933. That's long before any of the synagogues were burned. The Nazis had over 5 years to collect the data before the first synagogue burned.

"Also, maybe the Jews destroyed the records to keep them out of the hands of the Nazis."

They didn't. We know this because the Nazis kept the records. And there were books published before the synagogues were burned that include the data and cite the synagogue records as the source. These books are used by geneaologists to this day.

You might want to actually learn facts about the Holocaust, since you obviously know jack shit about it.

Saturday, September 05, 2009 4:45:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>>>> If you remove the documents before you burn the synagogues, the documents don't magically disappear. <<<<<<<

Or the documents can be destroyed before the Nazis could get their hands on them, bozo.

The identification of Jews and non-Jews is central to the holocaust but has been almost completely ignored. Edwin Black, author of "IBM and the Holocaust," said, "few have asked."

Monday, September 07, 2009 2:25:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>> You fucking moron, the Nazis decided to identify the Jews in 1933. That's long before any of the synagogues were burned. The Nazis had over 5 years to collect the data before the first synagogue burned. <<<<<<

You stupid dunghill, that was just in Germany. What about the other European countries?

>>>>>> And there were books published before the synagogues were burned that include the data and cite the synagogue records as the source. These books are used by geneaologists to this day. <<<<<<

Wrong -- holocaust records were kept secret until very recently.

And as I said, the Nazis often just rounded up people en masse -- there was no time for individual identification.

Monday, September 07, 2009 2:36:00 AM  
Blogger Andrew Winters said...

Larry,

Have you been to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C.? Perhaps you would find that interesting. You have to remember that back then, it was much easier to recognize Jews because they tended to be segregated.

True, a non-observant Jew whose family hadn't practiced in many years might not be identified as such. But any Jew whose family had practiced within the past few generations could be recognized by historical membership rolls at Temples, Jewish schools, and other Jewish institutions. Of course, some Jews weren't identified and managed to pass as gentiles but obviously many Jews were marked, forced to live in the ghetto and ultimately killed.

Yes, I'm descendant of Holocaust survivors so I guess you would probably call me biased.

Funny how you say that the Shoshanna character doesn't even *look* Jewish. The actress that played her, Melanie Lauren *is* Jewish. According to Wikipedia anyway.

Andrew Winters

Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:14:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

I hate to keep repeating myself.

>>>>>> You have to remember that back then, it was much easier to recognize Jews because they tended to be segregated. <<<<<<<

Supposedly many "Jewish" victims of the holocaust did not even think of themselves as Jews.

The Nazis often rounded up people en masse -- there was no time for individual identification or individual genealogical studies.

There was not just the problem of misidentifying Jews, but there was also the problem of misidentifying non-Jews. Non-Jews would have been afraid that they would be mistaken for Jews. We should have heard more complaints from people who thought that the Nazis mistook them for Jews.

The issue of Jew identification should be central to holocaust studies but has been almost completely ignored. Edwin Black, author of "IBM and the Holocaust," said that "few have asked." It has been dogmatically assumed that the Nazis "just knew" who the Jews were.

As I said, a "systematic" Jewish holocaust was impossible because the Nazis had no objective and reliable ways of identifying Jews and non-Jews.

>>>>>> Funny how you say that the Shoshanna character doesn't even *look* Jewish. <<<<<<<

Well, she doesn't.

>>>>>> The actress that played her, Melanie Lauren *is* Jewish. <<<<<<<

You are only proving my point. BTW, it's Laurent, not Lauren.

Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08:00 AM  
Blogger The History Man said...

I don't know that this will make a difference however, you can find the original concentration camp records on this site and you can peruse them if you wish. They are free for viewing until the end of the year. In Germany Austria and Switzerland you are required to register and have papers. They have always required registration. On the registration you put your religion. Before Hitler the Jews were some of the elite in Germany. No one was afraid to put down that they were Jewish. When Hitler took over he had these records. Finding out who the Jews were was not a worry unless they had no registration. Pretty much everyone did. You still have to have papers when you travel over the border on the trains.
As far as the neighbors are concerned, as long as they were registered Germans their word was gold. You could be accused of being a Jew and a lot of times there were no questions asked. They simply took you.
You can continue to play your game of believing that there was no Holocaust, but you have nothing to back up your beliefs. There are endless rooms of records to the contrary.

The History Man
Holocaust Page

Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:06:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

To the History Man:

What makes you think that I have not already seen all of these stories several times over?

See my two post-label groups on holocaust revisionism.

Wednesday, December 16, 2009 5:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just to go back to your original blog post, Inglourious Basterds never claimed to be historically accurate. It has been described as a "revenge fantasy" and is labeled as a comedy. And why would Jews destroy records just because they thought Nazis were coming to burn down their synagogue?

Also, I noticed that after almost every reply to a post, you insult whoever made the post. Why don't you show us solid evidence that there was no holocaust, and come up with some actual knowledge of this and stop insulting people.

Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Jim King said...

You should at least consider doing a little research on a subject before expressing an opinion. You remind me of Creationists who attempt to dispute the facts of evolutionary theory without knowing anything about. They end up embarrassing themselves, as you have hear. The Nazis began the process of identifying Jews in the days when there was no reason for them to hide their religion. Plus birth records, census records, etc. You should know this. This is basic stuff. It's a starting point. You shouldn't have to be told this. It would be like someone claiming to be a mathematician but being ignorant of basic arithmetic.

You are very stupid, or at least very lazy. Your pathetic arguments cannot be defended and are, obviously, destroyed with absurd ease.

Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:02:00 PM  
Anonymous larry the cable guy said...

You need to change something on your blog. You say that you will not moderate comments in any way, but obviously this is not true.

Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:04:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>> Inglourious Basterds never claimed to be historically accurate. <<<<<<

Unfortunately, a lot of people think that it is historically accurate -- or is at least realistic.

>>>>>> And why would Jews destroy records just because they thought Nazis were coming to burn down their synagogue? <<<<<<

Identifying Jews and non-Jews had to work all of the time, not just some of the time. Describing a scenario where the Nazis come to burn down a synagogue and miraculously find the rabbi there, then torture him to reveal the membership list, and then hunt down the Jews on the list one by one, just doesn't cut it. Also, supposedly a lot of "Jewish" victims of the holocaust did not even think of themselves as Jews.

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:43:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

Jim King barfed,

>>>>>> You should at least consider doing a little research on a subject before expressing an opinion. <<<<<

You should at least read what people have already written before accusing them of not doing any research. I have already addressed the issues you have raised -- see my "holocaust revisionism" post-label groups.

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:52:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>> You need to change something on your blog. <<<<<<

No, the lousy trolls who have been sabotaging this blog need to change.

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Nazis often rounded up people en masse -- there was no time for individual identification or individual genealogical studies."

Then who do you think they were rounding up en masse? People at random? Their own citizens? WHO? THAT is a "Reign of Terror", not meticulously finding out who is Jewish and who isn't.

Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:44:00 AM  
Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

>>>>>> Then who do you think they were rounding up en masse? People at random? Their own citizens? WHO? THAT is a "Reign of Terror", not meticulously finding out who is Jewish and who isn't. <<<<<<

Exactly - that is my point.

Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:50:00 AM  

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